SUNY Fredonia's Mike Igoe - Fake News?

Sunday, December 3rd

A look at ABC's Brian Ross, The Michael Flynn case and NBC's Matt Lauer


Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

It's hard line on news radio 930 WV and good morning this Dave Devo. For the next hour and I assume after that would Meet the Press coming up at twelve noon we're going to be talking about the events in Washington this past week and everything that swirled around them. Michael Flynn president trumps former national security advisor. Pled guilty to charges of lying to the FBI he did so. After an indictment coming down for a special counsel Robert Mueller a Mueller of course the man who's looking into. Possible connection between the trump campaign and Russia all that stuff about collusion now there are those that argue. That this does not represent that collusion but what it does represent is maybe something that happened after the fact. And part of that discussion part of that debate certainly brings in the issue of fake news and the media. Let's start our discussion by looking at that right now Brian Ross with AB CS and suspended now for a month. He reported initially when all this so Michael Flynn stuff came down. That trump was a candidate when he and his staffers directed flame to make contact and reach out with Moscow. He later clarified that those orders came when trump was president elect and that never Garrett it was reaching out to the campaign and not reaching out to influence the election. And that's crucial difference if you gotta make a mistake you don't wanna make a huge one like that. Especially at a time when the United States is debating. Whether or not Russell was involved in collusion and whether or not there's this thing out there that the term forces have labeled fake news let's talk about that right now. Mike I go is with us he is an attorney so we will get to some of the Michael Flynn stuff with him in just a little bit but he's also. A journalism professor at SUNY for don't yet he's a guy you've probably seen on TV used to be a reporter with channel two news Mike thanks for coming on board gave. I have my framed properly as this a huge big one. Yeah you sure have especially now that my scholar like this with music journalism professor united really bothers me and several levels but the basic level is as a journalism professor I teach very strongly let's get it right and I teach attribution. And checking a news sources. And how many students see that happen and you know big money players the national level can't get right you would think when someone's at that level who beat the pinnacle. Of the standards but obviously not so much the only good thing about this is that I like the fact that. ABC news. Art because I was very upset by the Brian Williams situation Brian Williams of course is a former NBC anchor. Who lied about his involvement in Iraqi war in the coverage of it and basically they pushed him aside temporarily they brought him back and MSNBC. And these you know still making millions of dollars since that you're bad boys soon go forward in peace now Imus and and mad dog made perhaps you know it's a little different situation obviously in central harassment more severe when sexual harassment. But the fact that you know they just kind of looked the other way again bother me ironically Andrew Luck. Who's one of the people responsible for removing Matt Williams now. They brought by right rents are. Yeah he's the same guy who panic let Brian Williams off the hook so I guess the whole climate of media involvement and media. Punishment is change so that's a good thing in that respect from journalism teacher pointed all right now is so you contend that ABC acted right and swift and good they should have. Okay that's what basic journalism is all about you know society professional journalists has a code of ethics. Seek the truth and report it well certainly not seeking the truth in reporting it. And factual inaccuracies or a big deal in this business you know if you do a minor mistake and certain other businesses maybe not so much of a problem. But who comes to journalism. You know the people relying you'd get it right. It's important that you pulled that stand. Now put it in the context of the national debate I first learned about this on Twitter from ABC where they said we've suspended primarily. I'm going into. We've suspended Brian Ross here's why in the basically outlined. That he is that it happened in the campaign and won't be called know what happened after the campaign. They apologized for that the immediate tweet right below that was and you wonder why we call it fake news. Talk about that damage that this does and its role in the larger debate over whether the media is out to get this particular president or exactly right out. So any time something like that happens including. The situation in BC media today and Matt Lauer. It feeds into Trump's and a fitness victims all the time here's another example and it's just an ongoing thing which obviously it's not. Unfortunately things have happened lately very high profile solely to a lot more attention. But obviously there's plenty journalists who are getting hype recently from the big name ones don't then it's a problem do you think the media's out to get this president. I got to admit I feel the media is biased towards trump. But on the other hand you know I think they probably are a little more rambunctious because his fitness I have to that it bothers me to some extent to even though not in the business anymore you know. It just like a blanket thing. I think it's like Nazis and if you keep hearing the same thing over and over again people his own yet take these take these fake news so that's the part of the equation that bothers me explain it what do you mean because trump is saying those fake news out there journalists have to be more aggressive. I think they. Perhaps are for that reason because they feel the reputation is more at stake and perhaps it's like anything else when someone starts. Firing arrows EU to your pets to defender's office I think in that respect. But let's face it it's been proven time and time again that most of the media at least on the outs it seems that the Hillary Clinton supporters for whatever reason. Wow you admit that you're acknowledge this because you are not a business anymore so let's go. I get you but I think there are a lot of and a lot of people in the journalistic community that sales and we're now buys. I think there biases affect the life regardless what your journalist you know and I don't think about it when you do a story. How you do the story is a form of bias obviously is supposed to be fair and accurate and impartial but your whole approach to the story. You know who you call how you frame the story of one and is a former vice whether it's intentional and it's just natural Swedish you rely on the things you know from your own experience. After we experience as a media person so it's frame of reference that creates the liberal minds it's it's that's the background of the people in journalism you wouldn't that you would say that's a little bit of an Arab journalists more liberal on others I don't know if I buy into that but I think for sure I think there was more mobilized towards Hillary Clinton and it's ironic how everything turned out in that respect because you think. That because all the media was focusing your attention against trumpet be gaps in election but not so much so. The tennis is something good for the electric as to believe what they want to believe in not necessarily be swayed by the media what you think 830930. The ways and number it's like to join the conversation we'd love to have you aboard Mike is with us for most of the half hour here and if we can squeeze in a couple quick phone calls there. I've always thought it said. That. It's not so much the way ago what the ways stories reported but what is selected to be the story. That that what different journalists decide is relevant. Is where the real yet let's. Horrified shell in theory every news organization starts invasion before to the media for number years with a editorial meeting and they're done several times today and the gatekeepers whose the ultimate boss within the executive editors and news director whatever executive producer. Decides what stories to cover and what is relevant for their audience as defined by a lot of different frak yeah. Yeah exactly right it's very hard to gauge I mean when you've worked in and they're for a while specialist in New York you kind of know what's important to people with a B the Buffalo Bills to snow on the night. But some of the other things you know it's a judgment call as far as what people really need to know so if you're gonna get down to that's a form of bias too but at least in theory the media is always supposed to be serving the needs of its audience I'm. Now what happens next you think with a Brian Ross will he return after four weeks. I think in this situation. They probably will bring him back unless there's really such a if you're out in the public that they feel he's lost all credibility in them. Let's a short man hours gone does that affect I was reading this morning about Larry they've actually basically. Who demolished his whole office they tore it down right to it like Urban Renewal. While now I do wanna touch on that too there's a good week to have you in here OK what do we can is that this is a week where we had a lot of issues involving the media. You said earlier that in in in terms of and that. I'm trying to figure out how good to phrase this without. Without downplaying. The suffering of victims I'm trying to be sensitive. And I think that you can though despite that sensitivity put forth the argument I thought I heard you say it. That the crimes. That Brian Williams were accused of basically lying about a story exaggerated story. Is in terms of journalism up pretty serious offense yet he's back on the air. We all know people in this business. That might be real jerks off there or behind the scenes or or behind the byline. But in terms of the job they do they do a really good job and they are kept there because that job. Is what they're there for. Matt Lauer. Charlie Rose different scenario. Yes it happened in the workplace but it wasn't necessarily something that happened. Involving their work product is that a distinction that it's proper to make and might of that. Do you think the penalties that have been issued to all these men. Anyone from Brian Williams for lying about a story or Matt Lauer for a sexually harassing coworkers. Is the punishment correct in light of that of one being being a offense at work and the other involving the work prop. I think it's all appropriate choose your credibility as a journalist way people perceive you analysts the credibility in news organization. You know it's ironic it's probably because of the Harvey Weinstein situation that this thing got the spotlight more. And there's certainly much for repercussions and perhaps a year or two ago consequently. Well Matt Lauer steps up to plate now gone. You know no discussion about it all eyes I suspect the way they handed lit and I think they say this in the memo. There's been some indications of problems in the past but once one particular colleague really laid out very carefully. And very distinctly what the problems were sexual harassment. But it's all about timing so again situation Charlie Rose bang right of way some very happy to see accountability in that respect and your right to some extent. Brian Williams lying is not perhaps as severe sexual harassment but it all goes to a picture of what a journalist should not be doing. And that's what it is is I think a much higher standard but there should be in my mind. To what's expected to journalists and how you conduct yourself and many many television contracts. Are full of a morals clauses and things like that as so you think it's okay that blow the question of when a journalist should be doing. Does include things like go moral turpitude sexual harassment that kind of stuff your personal life is part of the equation how people see what Republican I mean that's one of things when I was in the media I always had to be in my best behavior fortunately it was. Because people are watching you people talk about two and so on and so on your personal life is really not your personal life anymore. Mike and I were at work together and I can assure those stories and just. Eight Israel and entered he's a member of Mike dagger was your former journalist to channel two these days. He's a professor of journalism at SUNY for don't yet. Also by the way an attorney so a little bit later in the program we will be talking a bit more about Michael Flynn in the charges involved in the special counsel. And and president trumps former national security advisor but as you can hear in the background that we've got a caller on the line already Franken wins Ohio thanks for joining us. Yeah comment about journalism in the in the actual background work that they are expected to do by Republicans like you to attack plan. And as an example we keep hearing. If the so called Richard gonna benefit. From what source and you know source that the middle class event after all what did you do a represented a sexy turn. Under each set of rules and new rules are the old rules. And they look a look. Who wins include. For this particular tax return they do it's so simple to begin. Opening play. You don't go of course some say that the rich are gonna benefit more than a middle class here. And it hit a platform to go off and it's. You know 88 and who attacks is going to be and let you know what could implement. All right. I wanna take up before I throw to Mike Cook is I think will what I did here was like to hear what Cuomo said. And then I have a tax expert a CPA who reacted to what Cuomo said said the maybe some of his fears were overblown. And then you have two perspectives and can make your own decision rather than me saying Cuomo was wrong or Cuomo is right. I don't make the pronouncement but I think I give you and I hate to use the phrase we report you decide. But I think I give you enough items on the smorgasbord where you can then figure out what fits your own taste in your own background in your own sensibility she can arrive at an objective truth on your own Mike. Yeah I I agree with you Dave and you here's the thing about taxes taxes unlike some news stories are not as simple to talk about you know when I was in the meat tastes do some nickel tax to Tuesday and we we can't talk to different experts. And that's the problem even some attacks goes sometimes can be interpreted many many different ways so I think it's a good idea to do like a model breakdown of what could possibly happen. Even now there's a lot of stuff that's not finalist so that's exactly the problem it's a little twists and turns interpretation. Many many times over the years when it attacks reports I saw that things. You know with varying interpretations can change scenarios it's a very very differently or to report them at not to make excuses for the media but that's the way it is I know from years of covering tax reports. I can't think you had a broader issue than the two while I'm actually addressing go ahead. Ill equipped with. Journalists. And then the back our big dude can you injured I like convenient reporting. Where it just. General broad question without actually doing any kind of work it out on their home mortgage debt piece of journalism and that. You know what that is frank. Let me tell it the reason is because nowadays there's so much expected of young people. When I was in the media I was basically reporter I did some photography but nowadays the young people coming to the business are expected to be reporting. Photography. And the it. And and top of that they get to do all the social media whatever maybe for the never taken in the station's website again not to make excuses but there's a lot a lot of demands and the deadline is like the next meal coming. And fortune for for example a young lady did a story in the US summer. She came to my house 11 AM left at noon in June she had to go down to for going for other story by herself drive down there spent an hour and a half a typical story. And should go back and the news that night she did a full package in my story a full package on the water. Story down in the for donor of Brockton area and both sets of shoes on three shows solely jumpy at first dancing as fast is again all right but that's our broadcast for example talk about print are they less investigative who do you think. Yes and no. Newspapers are cutting back resources they are putting more into digital so I think in theory the print people have more time but fortunate places like channeled to. Have hired investigative post be part of the equation and channel two as a good example instead of four sonics and it's may morbid commitment to investigative reporting but bottom line it is. The corporate climate nowadays is people did not have as much time to work on their stories and unfortunate you get what you get what could be mistakes. Our lack of time to develop stories again not being an apologist but that's reality and know it from very well from seeing it. Joseph west Seneca hello hello you're on the air. A couple comments I think that by and large journalism is dead colts made it straight out also state that. Journalist art generally. Intellectually dishonest and yearn to be a rocket scientist to figure this stuff about. Trump is absolutely right there's a lot of fake news look at the election. I guess this week. There are drop pressed me in the White House. They documented that 90% of the questions were again strong they didn't even bring it on tiger's issues several other issues that we're at a news. Yet there are asking more about smaller they're asking about Ali's older issues so if they don't think people are on this nonsense that comes out of the grass. They got another think coming there's a lot of people around. And I I think journalism completely dead ticket awards were but I don't leave careful what I hear on the news and BCC BS CNN. They've been documented of these states there's a lot of say you lose your yourself you know believe it. Joseph before you go allow get some reaction from Mike but tell me what you would want to see. A journalist do that they're not doing. When they when they look for a fraction. You know are if they did have to homework I'm that they didn't have a political agenda would make a big difference. Like you look at how they investigated does that Clinton's verses how they're trying to you know do your shots against straw. Other one example where. You know they documented a speech where. Hillary. I was doing a speech and they they didn't say anything about it a lot of her statement sinner but I trump they do all the investigative work it's about the fact that he's wrong unless. We fact checked it cheap lawn and that they don't do the same per what their political agenda which is always left out left lane. All right Mike what you say. Yeah I think there's always going to be more of a spotlight on trump because he is the president council Hillary Clinton even though she still public figure is not as much of interest to people everyday people lament but I greeted some excess announced no journalism is dead but it certainly is about what it. What used to be primarily because of the things I designed that there's you know more work to do and less time to do and and and a lot of I think we're all said and done. Has to do with the fact is basically five corporations and on about 90% of American Media. And fortune is what they want it's basically squeeze squeeze squeeze and get whatever you can get but that's not an ideological bias that's system bias toward profit. Well it is but the point is when all said and done when push comes to shut it does affect your ability to cover the news and how much time you have to spend and injuries and how much time yet to develop stories so. I think you two go hand in hand art is the media biased yes. OK fair enough we'll have to got them quoting David Gregory and and checked on that we'll have to leave it there. Micah Willy for a break things are going by this was interesting stuff. When we come back on the other side we're going to talk a little bit more about Michael Flynn I know you're an attorney we didn't even get to your legal perspective on that. OK let's do that will will have Mike after the break and take a break for some commercials a newscast. We'll bring in a little bit more with him and then we'll also a feather in former federal prosecutor. Anthony groups coming up next to. All still here more to come a timeline and Israeli and I'm thirty WB and.